The area around West Bragg and Moose Mountian has some fabulous riding (thanks to all the trail builders!). We have many XC-type trails that have significant elevation gain, or they're downhill focused trails. That's awesome for some groups I ride with, but there are beginner to intermediate riders that could use a few more options to get into mountain biking. We'll use Iron Springs-Tom Snow or Telephone Loop at times, but these trails are wet and unmaintained for summer use.
 
Picture the south end of Tom Snow near Station Flats - wide dirt track, you can bring younger kids.
 
Think about Riverview running along the Elbow River - fairly level singletrack that winds gently through the trees. Or sections of Jumpingpound Loop that traverse the hillside, through meadows and forest.
 
Envision winding singletrack like Pneuma, but without coughing up a lung.
 
Combine these types of trails into a stacked loop system, and you've got a great assortment of trails that can be combined in any number of ways for many different riding abilities. With the somewhat lower elevations around West Bragg, it would be the ideal place to put in these trails. Think of loops running between Station Flats and West Bragg, with a range of trail designs. Maybe incorporate the existing Iron Springs and Tom Snow trails as the outer boundaries, and work the new trails between them.
 
Let me know what you think of ideas like this. In the meantime,  I need to unroll the topo maps, spend time in the bush and figure out if this is doable...

Having just ridden the pneuma-moosepackers summit trail along with all the reroutes I have to say it is getting pretty long and is extremely high effort as far as climbing for all but the more hardcore riders.  We just took over 3.5 hrs (of course that included a sidetrip up the new trail to where the excavator is currently located at) to finish all of the pneuma packers summit trail.  An idea may be a loop starting from another trailhead.  I am not so big on point to point rides, plus many already exist. For example, the best point to point ride is perhaps the highline trail in canmore.  It is now getting so long it could be difficult for many riders to do it in one day without a shuttle back to the trailhead.  K country already has some rides that are borderline point to point such as jumpingpound-coxhill or require 5km or longer road sections to get back to the car, and if you do powderface ridge by starting the ride up the gravel road section it is another one requiring a long road ride.

I am not sure what trailhead would be the best candidate to develop another loop from.  I have to think that the area around the ranger station just before station flats would have a lot of potential as would something from the dawson trailhead.  Now that the reroutes are all in perhaps a trail could be made by riding the first part of tom snow backwards and cutting another loop, maybe 10 km or so would be a better length for after work rides or fall rides  when there is less light.  Those who have ridden the bow 80 may have some more insight.

fortunately the moose network is getting increasingly massive and fantastic.  Lots of great accomplishments in 2009!

The president and I talked about creating a warm-up / practice loop network leaving out of the Station Flats parking lot (while sitting in his RV during the Bow 80). It would consist on a constant trail up the ridge similar to the Diamond T loop but no nearly as steep.  You could then choose from 2 or three trails of increasing difficulty back to the trailhead. This would be a great way to warm up on race day or bring the kids out for a little practice. The ultimate goal would be to also include a skills area at the base with logs, berms, bridges, etc.

Loops.  Short ones, long ones, easy ones, hard ones.  Networks of trails that allow the rider to choose their own adventure.  Bailout options every 5km or so. 

This is already happening to a certain extent with Sulphur Springs, Pneuma, Race of Spades and Moosepackers.  You ride up Sulphur Springs and have the option to complete the SS loop [~12km], take Pneuma or the road to Race of Spades [~15km] or take Pneuma/road to Moosepackers [~22km].  Any variation of these trails requires a fair bit of climbing for someone new to the sport or with a bad hangover... 

I'd like to see a system similar to what is available in Fernie or Revelstoke, where you can ride along a main artery and have many options.  One of my favourite Fernie sets is to do Kid's Play - Splitting Bears - whatever the other trail is on the other side of the road.  It's not an epic cardio-fest, but it's fun.  You can ride each trail either direction, connect to other trails in the area and it's good for a wide range of rider abilities.  We took a friend recovering from chemotherapy up through there, and other than having to use a bungee cord to get him up the road [he had NO cardio left], he was fine. 

I recall a trip to Oregon a few years back, where we were riding in the Hood River region.  We didn't know the area at all and followed a vague description from a guy at a shop.  The trail gradually wound it's way up through the trees, and spur trails peeled off every few hundred yards or so.  We rode up until we felt like going down, and wouldn't you know it - the singletrack just wound back to the main trail after a couple of miles.  We'd ride up a bit further and try another one, and another, and another.  4 hours later we had done a ton of climbing and descending, but didn't feel shredded at all.  On our last run we linked together 5 descents, hootin' and hollerin' all the way back to the car.  I'm not saying that it's the best system [the main route up would be super-busy on the weekend], but it worked pretty well.

For the area in question, trails could be built on the west [drier] side of Fullerton Ridge, or a trail could surf the contour around the whole ridge without requiring any major climbs and be accessed from Tom Snow at both ends.  It would be like riding around a Chef Boyardee ravioli! Wheeeee!  Using Fullerton Ridge to access West Bragg allows for a big loop that could involve Tom Snow as something more than an exit for Moosepackers and Special K.  Speaking of Special K, after the 5 minutes of freeride off the top, there's a beautifully long segment of XC singletrack goodness that rolls along the ridge, potentially all the way to Diamond T. 

Getting back to West Bragg, finding a way to segment Telephone Loop into bite-sized chunks would be great.  So would re-routing the trail out of the drainage...  I do recall taking a wrong turn and riding/hiking a cutline through the area.  It kinda sucked, but it was dry.  Building a couple more loops off of the north end of Telephone would give more [drier] options and enable an easier connectiion to Pinetop.  Developing more trail off of Hwy 68 shouldn't be too difficult, as long as there's a reliable way to cross the creek.  Using the bridge that goes to the shooting range would work, and puts you pretty close to Dawson, which has potential for quite a few loop trails on the lower slopes of Cox Hill and on over to Pine Grove.  I've even heard of an old trail that links Jumpingpound Summit to Tom Snow where it hit the north end of the Moose Loop.  Hot diggity daffodil!

What about a descent from the Fire Lookout trail to the Moose Loop?  How about a trail from Tom Snow/Moose Loop to the bottom of Moosepackers that rolls along the foothills and forms a stacked loop from West Bragg?  Sneaky cutoff routes from Sulphur Springs back to Diamond T?  Rolling singletrack from the bottom of Moose Mountain Road back to Station Flats?  The mind reels!

 
 
this is a tough one.  for the record, i agree with pinkrobe.  loops, using the fullerton, and in particular building up the west-ish side of the moose a little more (ie. fullerton...can we traverse the actual ridge?)
 
i personally like long, difficult rides involving a great deal of suffering and technical difficulty so i can only add so much to the discussion to be honest.  i would really, really love to see the rockier terrain being used better, and making the loops longer (ideally the longer portions being optional of course)...this could be accomplished with more sidehill/ridge-like riding rather than straight ups/downs (i must say though...i love pneuma!).  i certainly won't disagree with making some easier options but i'd love to see some really difficult (aerobically and technically) trails of the XC/trail variety rather than the classic DH stuff...or the easier stuff although i will admit the potential need for some noob/kiddie trails.
 
priorites in my deviant mind would be making moose packers the premier trail in the area, which would mean rerouting the road portion entirely....and possible rerouting most of the tom snow into "real" singletrack.  priority 2 would be linking the jumpingpound area with sibbald....and not using gas roads or the tom snow to do it.
 
at this point i will begin rant....equestrians and XC skiers have LITTLE in common with mtbr's.  XC skiers will LOVE any easier, less steep routes (i also XC ski)...but they also want wider routes and very gradual descending (in general of course, i am a bad nordic skier so maybe i am biased!).  horses want to ruin trails, and also want wider (read: tom snow) trails....where even novice mountain bikers appreciate the 12" wide singletracks.  to build true multi-use trails is going to be difficult...but not impossible.  the stacked loop system is really the only solution that i can think of, with the highest elevation trails being the most difficult in all aspects.  
 
and please...please...consider using the upper packers trail? (leading to the fire lookout) as a starting point for longer loops.  this trail although popular with hikers is relatively rarely ridden, and offers an easy climb with fantastic elevation gain, superb rocky terrain, and numerous ways to get down the mountian and join up with exisiting trails.
 
and lastly (for the moment) special K is one of the most underappreciated trails with some of the best potential.   a MAJOR reworking of this trail could yeild a high end technical trail accesible to every style of riding (ie. no jumps, just using the exisiting terrain and ditching the fall line trail at the start).  i love that trail as an idea and it has so many possibilities to completely rock....but has yet to get there. 
 
and in closing, i am open to discussions, willing to help out in any way that i can whether time or $$$, and let's work together and get this going!!!!   a big thanks to everyone who has been involved to this point!!!!
 
 
 

I agree with ferday, I like long sustained climbs as well. We have to think beyond that to include all levels of riders.

We want beginners, kids, families, groups and everyone else to ride these trails to advance the sport so we need all levels of trails. I learned to ride on Burnaby Mtn in BC (home to SFU) It has everything there including a great skills area, beginner trails, advanced trails and stunts. On a warm Sat afternoon, you saw every level of rider there and it was great!!! Since I moved away 3 years ago they have done even more work there. That is what I want to see at Station Flats.

Stacked loops are the way to go. As a matter of fact, we're having a good discussion over on pinkbike about how with a simple hwy66 connector trail a whole load of stacked loops open up using the existing trail network:

http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=246&pagenum=219#commentid2177100

I support the addition of simple beginner trails, mostly because my kids are starting to ride and I need some place to take them besides Fish Creek. West Bragg is totally underutilized and I think it should play a greater role in the next stage of development. I'm also an xc skier, but biking on the West Bragg ski trails is unappealing. Single track is what I'm after!

At a higer level, I think the Moose area is too big and the terrain too varied to address as a single entity. I suggest it be broken up into areas and managed as such. Each area could be designed based on its strengths and weaknesses, including strategic connectors to the other areas. I'm open to discussions as well. Lets talk :)

Awesome comments thus far!  Feel free to post a link to this page wherever you think people will be interested. 

• It sounds like there is good support for the loop concept thus far.  Anyone think it's a bad idea?  If so, why?
• For those who like long, sustained climbs, we're in the hills and mountains so I don't think we'll be getting away from that anytime soon.
• What other specific routes or trail features would you want to see? 

Keep the discussion going...

 
This is more my thoughts on CMBA trails in general, but I figure this might be a good spot to type this mess of thoughts...
 
I'm just a guy who left Alberta last year and now back for a couple weeks and seeing all the changes out there...first, it's awesome seeing all the changes happening around the area and how stoked people are.  I have done trail maintenance in a very limited manner comparatively by going out myself with a few tools over the years and fixing up existing trails (Jewel, Packers, etc).  I also been fortunate enough to have spent the last few months homeless and jobless and touring around in bc, ab, id, ut, ontario, etc and in that time have developed some sort of perspective on trail building, IMBA trails, etc. 
 
IMHO the best trails in kcountry are horse trails, cow trails, etc before mountain bikes existed.  Rutted rooted rocks ie Cox, Packers, Jewel, Baldy, the singletrack on Elbow, etc.  They were not developed with IMBA guidelines nor did they follow any sort of rule other than traverse up or down a mountain, across ridges, etc.  They are not wind-through-the-pines type trails.  Am I the only one that finds the new re-routes too tight and twisty and slow?  From the one Tom Snow reroute close to Station Flats...it bypasses a super fast open fun section (and yes, rutted and messy) and takes you to slow singletrack, then spits you back to the double track.  I dunno, what is wrong with Tom Snow?  It is fast as hell and fun...just needs a dude who knows how to build bridges over the muck...not reroutes.  There is nothing wrong with a trail just because it isn't 6 inches wide.  Hell, why route singletrack around the road after Packers...it's fun.  Spend time fixing up Tom Snow, not getting rid of it.
 
I rode some "half-rule" trails out in Ontario, and again IMHO they are boring...you can't let go of your brakes as there is a hairpin turn coming up around a tree...there is no steep falline fun stuff...there is no excitement.  Chuck the IMBA guidelines and go find killer technical features like big rocks and roots and build the trail through it.  (note that I belong to IMBA and own the trail building book for whatever it's worth).  
 
Anyways, these are just one guys opinion...this is meant for discussion, not flaming in anyway...I applaud all you dudes who are getting your shit together out there...but so far I'm skipping all the new trails and sticking to the old tried and true...I can't be the only one
 
Cheers
 

 
 
Wow.  I love all these ideas and comments coming out.  I personally would like to see one or two trails in the stacked loop system that have an honest skills rating worthy of a black diamond.  It doesn't have to be some incredibly physical and long climb, but I would like to see it challenge my technical climbing skills, balance, and negotiation around and over natural features in the land.  After riding some of the XC trails in Whistler, I realized exactly how tame our trails are here.  Maybe Jewel Pass gets close to what I'm thinking about.
 
Given all the different mountain bike user groups that are popping up in this thread, I only ask for just one trail like this to start.
 
One other note to keep in mind.  Anything we propose must be built according to US Forestry trail standards.  This is pretty much an exact copy of the IMBA standards.  Anything else is a non-starter with Alberta SRD.
 
Chris.

Fernie has some fantastic riding. I would really like to see a series of mid-length, XC-downhill rides with various technical skill levels all sharing the same uptrack close to station flats.  The ridge I've scoped is inside the Diamond-T loop and climbs easily-ish up the ridge.  On the riders right, there could be three to five descent options back down to the Station Flats parking area.  The higher up the ridge you climb, the more challenging the downhill track.  A loop could take anywhere from 20 to 30  minutes depending on athletic ability and technical skills.  It would lend itself to sessioning and is perfect for late evening rides or when you're hanging around waiting for a friend, before or after a big ride.
The new Tom Snow re-routes (when complete) will change the way you look at the old Tom Snow.  The re-routes may seem a little awkard at first sight but once they link to the new trail system, you'll be very excited to ride'em. 

I agree with many of the comments posted.  I must admit that I also have questioned some of the new trail re-routes.  Pneuma is a fantastic trail and I think has proven its value in terms of helping riders avoid the dusty road, and will increase the traffic on the upper trails to non-shuttle riders.  I do wish that there was a way to limit the downhill traffic, though that would be difficult.  Every time I am climbing the trail, there is an increasing number of downhill shuttle riders using this trail - what's wrong with all the others?  Also, the switchbacks higher up are difficult for many less experienced riders, and are somewhat inconsistent with the bottom half which has a better flow - all in all great work though.

The Tom Snow and Sulphur Springs reroutes are fun trail, but they really don't mesh with the fast and open nature of the rest of the trail.  It is great to hear that there is a bigger plan for Tom Snow and that it will eventually flow well, though there is something to be said for the existing nature of the trail (minus the mud bogs) and I feel some of that should be retained - as for the Sulphur reroute, it just doesn't match the trail and it doesn't seem to get the use.

I feel that basing a new stacked loop system from West Bragg would be the best choice moving forward.  It would be great to create some link trails around Station Flats to further develop that system, such as the Hwy 66 connector and Moosepackers to Tom Snow track, but that area is already so busy on many days, do we really want to add even more volume there?  As stated, the West Bragg trails are very underutilized, and there is great potential there to expand the Telephone and Moose loops with various connectors and other options to really develop that area and create an alternative option from Station Flats.  The two areas can easily be connected to form even more options, though that connector needs to be well planned as well.  Right now, you can only connect on a wet and unused trail to Allan Bill Pond, or slog through a road section to get to Tom Snow and then to Station Flats.  I think expanding the West Bragg trails, with good connectors to a revised Tom Snow to allow for even longer loops is the way to proceed.  In the future, the Moose Loop trail could be connected to other trails on Moose Mountain, and form a loop from Station Flats, to SS, to Pneuma, down a new downhill trail to Moose Loop and back over Tom Snow to SF.

Lots of options and I look forward to helping make this a reality, but certainly the West Bragg stacked loops get my vote.

We're definitely getting lots of interesting comments, which is exactly what we need here.  A couple of things to note:

• As previously mentioned, any new trail that goes into the area has to conform to US Forestry standards.  These are essentially the same as IMBA standards.  This is not a decision made by the CMBA, but we agree with it.
• I've been in touch with the Fernie Mountain Bike Club, and they build to the IMBA and Whistler standards.  Given the signage and the overall trail design I've witnessed, the Revelstoke Trail Alliance seems to be using IMBA/Whistler standards as well.  Same thing with the Golden Cycling Club.  Same thing with WORCA.  Same with MMBTS.  Even the NOHVCC folks [quads, ATVs, dirt bikes, etc.] build to a standard very similar to IMBA's, just on a larger scale.  The reality is, if you don't build to IMBA standards [or something very close to them], you don't get funding or permission. 
• The choice of routes for Tom Snow were heavily dictated by the surprisingly large quantity of water flowing down the slope to the creek[s].  The wet spots are caused by natural seeps above the trail that flow continuously.  As you can imagine, any fill material short of concrete will ultimately become saturated and contribute to the bog effect. 

Here is a brief summary of the discussion so far:

• Stacked loops are a very popular idea.
• There are lots of routes with big climbs and/or big descents - how about something a bit flatter to appeal to beginners, kids and families?
• The Pneuma/Moosepackers loop is getting pretty long.
• How about practice loops and a skills park right near Station Flats?
• Expand to include Fullerton Ridge, segment Telephone Loop to provide shorter loops from West Bragg.
• Connect Sibbald and Jumpingpound via singletrack, more challenging trail, more sidehill/easier trail, make Tom Snow into singletrack only
• Make trails for all levels of rider
• West Bragg needs to be developed more
• Cow paths and horse trails are fun.  There's nothing wrong with wide trails.  Build bridges over the mud.  Dispense with IMBA guidelines.
• Fix trail, don't build new trails.  Build trails like they have in Fernie.  Public consultation is important to enhance volunteer participation.
• Fernie trails are built to IMBA specs.
• Tom Snow is fast. 
• We need some true black diamond trail.  Something similar to Jewell Pass, but harder.
• More loops, with a combination of XC and descents.  The new Tom Snow trails will change your perspective.
• West Bragg is a logical site for new trail development.

Okay, what else?????

How about adding expansion and developement of the Station Flats Parking lot.  If the development of the trail network goes ahead as suggested even 1/2 way, the parking lot with not accomidate the extra traffic.

A simple fix for unavoidable sections of perma-bog is laying down a boardwalk of sturdy logs cut from solid deadfall (of which there is plenty). A big section of this on lower Tom Snow lasted for well over 10 years before it mostly rotted away. It makes for a bumpy section, but would be simpler and cheaper than building a bridge- which would probably rot away after 10 years anyways. Good work on the new Tom Snow trail everyone! Twisty fun! Dean H.